In Part 1 of this response to Ed Decker’s podcast, “To Moroni with Love,” we show that we agree with him that “The Mormon and the Christian worship at entirely different altars, with gospels that fully separate the one from the other.”
However, in his effort to establish this fact and to demonstrate that the worship of “the Mormon,” and “the Christian” is distinguished by truth and falsehood, he bases his argument on the denial of the need for a restoration of the gospel of Christ, due to the apostasy, or the falling away from the truth, after the twelve apostles fell asleep.
Ed summarizes his case by listing six statements, so we summarize our response to each as follows. For more details, see Part 1:
1. All churches except the Mormon Church are in error, all are abominations
The body of all churches are made up of sinful men, including the Mormon Church, and, consequently, in many instances, though they may be humble followers of Christ, they do err. The difference, however, is that Jehovah has set his hand the second time to recover his covenant people, as he promised anciently, and to perform this work, he sent down righteousness from heaven to the Gentiles, and he sent forth truth out of the earth to them, that it might go from them to his people, who are of the house of Israel.
Those who accept this revelation of righteousness and truth, accept him who sent it. Those who reject it, reject him who sent it.
2. The Bible is, at best, a weak source of truth. It is in error and God has sent
more complete and accurate scripture.
The Bible is the precious record of Judah. It consists of two witnesses of Christ, the Old Testament, which testifies that Jesus is the Christ, the Only Begotten of the Father, the promised Messiah, and the New Testament, which testifies that Jesus of Nazareth is the Messiah, which the Jews were promised would come, and that the unbelieving among them crucified him upon the cross, and that he died for the sins of the world and rose from the dead the third day, with healing in his wings.
The record of the Jews is a record kept by many generations of fallen, but inspired men, most of whom labored diligently to preserve the word of God, received by revelation through their oracles, the prophets of God. However, when Jerusalem was destroyed and the Jews were scattered, the record of Judah passed from them to the Gentiles, who had no oracles and therefore asserted that the God of Israel no longer sent revelations or prophets or worked by means of miracles among the children of men.
Not only this, but after the Christian Jews, the twelve apostles, were killed by the unbelieving Jews and Gentiles, the great and abominable church, the whore of all the earth, assumed custody of the record of the Jews, taking away many plain and precious things from it.
These plain and precious parts that were lost, including the true points of Christ’s doctrine of salvation, both individual salvation and national salvation, show how we must all come to Christ to be saved personally, and how nations also must come to Christ to be preserved nationally. Many of them were restored by the righteousness that God sent down from above, and the truth that he sent out of the earth below.
3. We must earn our own salvation.
This is impossible, as explained in Part 1. No one can do it. Mormon doctrine teaches that men must keep the commandments of God, all the days of their lives, after they enter the narrow path, by way of repentance and baptism in the name of Jesus, or they cannot be saved.
Those who endure to the end are held guiltless before the Father, by the Savior, not because, by their works they deserve it, but because they obeyed the law of Christ, which is the gospel, in the which he promises to save them by the power of his shed blood, his sacrifice for their sins, according to the plan of salvation, which was laid before the world was, which gives him the right, by reason of his eternal suffering, to hold them guiltless before the judgment bar of God, which he will do, IF they have been faithful in keeping HIS commandments, not those of Moses, nor Mohammed, nor any others but his.
4. We can become “Gods.”
This is the doctrine of exaltation and it is clearly taught in the New Testament, although not as plainly as it is in the latter-day revelations. The truth is that, without this doctrine, men cannot comprehend the great principles of the Bible. It takes only a moment of reflection to understand that for kings and rulers to sit in the throne of Jesus, which is the promised destiny of Christians who overcome the world through faith in Jesus Christ, according to the Bible, and rule and reign forever, they must rule over someone.
However, according to the precepts of men, which the non-LDS Christians labor under, no people are left, in the end, to rule over, for the destiny of all men is to either be saved and dwell in heaven with Jesus, or else to not be saved and dwell in a lake of fire forever. Those that are not saved are doomed to burn in hell forever and ever, according to this false doctrine.
How then can the Saints be called kings? How can they be rulers (the word is “gods”), if they have no one to rule, to preside over? How can they be one with God the Father and his Son Jesus Christ, if they are not rulers with them, sitting with them on their thrones? This is a strange sort of heavenly situation to be in , kings who are kings in name only.
5. God was once a man but progressed into Godhood. So did our Heavenly
When we talk of God the Father, or the Man of Holiness, as Jesus refers to him in latter day revelation, and the Son of Man, we do not leave out women, for God Almighty himself has declared that man is not without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord.”
As regards the Son of Man, he is God, yet he grew from grace to grace. He received not of the fulness at first, but continued from grace to grace, until he received a fulness;
Who can deny this? It is recorded in the record of the Jews that it is so, and it is confirmed in latter day revelation. Yet, Jesus said that “All things are delivered to me of my Father…” and he also said, “Verily, verily, I say unto you, The Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the Father do: for what things soever he doeth, these also doeth the Son likewise.” So, we conclude that Jesus, a man born on this earth, became God on this earth, by virtue of what he received from his Father in heaven.
Is it so unreasonable then to suppose that the Firstborn son of Mary, and the Firstborn from the dead, was also the Firstborn of his Father in Heaven, and as he grew from grace to grace on earth, he also grew from grace to grace with his Father in Heaven, before he was sent to earth?
He came to earth as the vine, his Father being the husbandman of the vine and his disciples being the branches. The branches bear fruit, as long as they abide in the vine, which means that they too receive grace for grace. They cannot receive of the fullness at first, but, loving him and keeping his commandments, they receive of his fulness eventually, and are glorified in him eventually, as he is in the Father; therefore, they receive grace for grace from him, as he received it from his Father, who received it from his Father, and so on, eternally.
6. All this is known because God sent a prophet in the latter days.
Well, of course. The Lord said that he put his people to sleep. He covered their prophets and their rulers, because of their iniquity and because they closed their eyes, and rejected the prophets; But, he said that the vision of all would become to them as the words of a book, or that it should come to pass that he would bring forth unto them the words of a book, and they shall be the words of them which have slumbered. (see Isaiah 29)
Now, how does the Lord God of Israel work? Does he not send his servants, the prophets, to accomplish all that he sends them forth to accomplish? As the prophet Amos said,
“5 Can a bird fall in a snare upon the earth, where no gin is for him? shall one take up a snare from the earth, and have taken nothing at all?
“6 Shall a trumpet be blown in the city, and the people not be afraid? shall there be evil in a city, and the Lord hath not done it?
“7 Surely the Lord God will do nothing, but he revealeth his secret unto his servants the prophets.
“8 The lion hath roared, who will not fear? the Lord God hath spoken, who can but prophesy?” (Amos 3)
The Lord God has spoken. He has now set his hand the second time to gather his people in from their long dispersion to the lands of their inheritances. He has set his hand again the second time to recover his people, and it is the day, yea, even the last time, that the servants of the Lord shall go forth in his power, to nourish and prune his vineyard; and after that the end soon comes.
The rest of Ed Decker’s podcast is dedicated to showing that:
1) Only Bible prophets were true prophets, so the scriptural cannon is now closed.
2) False prophets can be shown to be false by tests given in the Bible.
3) Joseph Smith is proven to be a false prophet, by the these tests.
These tests are:
1) Lead the people away from the living God.
2) Speak false prophecies that are not from the living God.
3) Teach for doctrines the precepts of men, out of harmony with the scriptures.
Ed then seeks to convince us that Joseph Smith has been cross examined, his every written word, along with every word written for him and about him, has been scrutinized and he has been found wanting, as a true prophet of God, because it can be shown that his witness over a 24 year period of his tumultuous life, was not always given the exact same way. He left some things out of the account of his visions at times, things which he included at other times. This is supposed to make him a false prophet, because it appears that his view of God and what he saw in his youth changed.
However, as disconcerting as this may be to Ed, the fact is that Joseph was martyred for his testimony that God spoke to him. He knowingly went to his death, saying that “I am going like a lamb to the slaughter; but I am calm as a summer’s morning; I have a conscience void of offense toward God, and toward all men. I SHALL DIE INNOCENT, AND IT SHALL YET BE SAID OF ME — HE WAS MURDERED IN COLD BLOOD.”
He had seen a vision; He knew it, and he knew that God knew it, and he could not deny it, neither dared he do it; at least he knew that by so doing he would offend God, and come under condemnation.
What God did he fear, had he denied that he had seen the vision, as the world has tried to get him to do ever since? Why, the God of Israel, of course! These are hardly the words of a false prophet, seeking to lead people astray, away from the living God, to worship strange gods.
But, says Ed. Joseph prophesied that many things would come to pass that did not come to pass, in the way he said God revealed to him. Ed then chooses several out of these allegedly many false prophesies, to illustrate his point.
The most damning one, judging from the amount of time Ed dedicates to it, is the Civil War prophecy, found in D&C 87. After Ed quotes the prophecy in its entirety, he points out that 1) It was given almost 30 years, before the Civil War of the 1800s, and the particulars concerning South Carolina’s rebellious mood were well known to the citizens at that time. 2) Because the South Carolina secession from the Union did not occur in 1832, as everyone expected, the prophecy “was shelved, by the Church. 3) The international scope of the prophecy was way out of line with the war between the States.
Finally, Ed points out that “[V]erses 3-6 state that the slaves shall rise up, the “remnants left in the land” shall come against the Gentiles (non-Mormons) and the bloodshed, famines, plagues (caused by this great war) shall bring, with God’s wrath, ‘a full end of all nations.’ Again, a definite, tangible prophecy that DID NOT come to pass.”
Readers of this website should find this very disturbing, if they are awake at all regarding the “awful situation” that this nation is now in. While it’s true that the “rebellion of South Carolina, which will eventually terminate in the death and misery of many souls,” can be and was considered to be a prophecy of the U.S. Civil that began with the secession of South Carolina, it also may yet come to pass, applying to a time that even now draws nigh.
It could happen to be that there is a time yet future, when the American slaves of the globalist banksters, who have hijacked this country, could “rise up against their masters, who shall be marshaled and disciplined for war.” Notice, Ed says people should read the prophecy carefully, but then he leaves out the key phrase “after many days,” which is the time frame given in the prophecy of 1832.
Also, attention should be given to the fact that, just as the ancient American prophesies foretold the end of Gentile hegemony in America would come after “five full cycles of the dawn star,” (i.e. in 2012), many, many Gentile experts and scholars and prognosticators are now declaring it so, yet their dire prognostications are not based on ancient prophecy, but rather they are based on current events, conditions and observations.
In other words, the prophecy may yet be fulfilled to the letter. Everything points to it, as it is widely recognized today that Americans are now slaves to the banksters. It is the global elite who control the U.S. Federal government, which is even now disciplining and marshaling itself for war, as an ever mounting sentiment that we shall soon see an uprising of its slaves, now abounds on all sides of the political spectrum.
Meanwhile, the U.S. currency and the world economy are poised for a disastrous collapse, and nations throughout the earth feel that we are on the brink of World War III, in which war will be poured out upon all nations, resulting in the death and misery of many souls.
If that happens, there is no doubt that “it shall come to pass also that the remnants who are left of the land will marshal themselves, and shall become exceedingly angry, and shall vex the Gentiles with a sore vexation.”
This would be the defining proof that Joseph was sent by God, for the only other place this prophecy occurs in a literal sense and in unmistakable language, is in the Book of Mormon, which applies the prophecy of Micah to America.
Of course, by then it will be too late for Ed and the others who fight against Zion. It will be unto them “as a dream of a night vision. It shall even be as when an hungry man dreameth, and, behold, he eateth; but he awaketh, and his soul is empty: or as when a thirsty man dreameth, and, behold, he drinketh; but he awaketh, and, behold, he is faint, and his soul hath appetite: so shall the multitude of all the nations be, that fight against mount Zion.”